Calling the oppo help line...

"Highlander-Datsuns are Forever" (jamesbowland) 05/21/2020 at 12:34 • Filed to: Oppohelp

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Any of you know how to custom fab hard brake lines or how difficult it is?

What is not currently working very well.

The rubber seals on this thing are pretty well worn out

I’ve run into an issue rebuilding my brake master cylinder and may have to purchase a master cylinder from a different model car. The internal rubber seals are worn out and there are not currently any replacements that I’m able to find. I can use a newer master cylinder from a newer Datsun Z car but t he front and rear reservoirs are switched around. This would then require some brake line bending or fabrication to attach the hard brake lines to the correct location .

I’ve found kits on lin e but I’m not sure how good they are or how difficult it is to fab up the lines.

Both of the lines I need are 6-8" long and would have at least 3-4 bends of 90-45 degrees each.

Thanks!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 12:40

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eh,,,, its a pain in the arse to do.....but not hugely difficult

just need a cable bender

can do it without...but kinks are bad mmkay

XJDano > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 12:45

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When swapping axles I needed to get new lines for the rear. It was done for me but it doesn’t seem too hard, just getting a decent flaring tool and harbor freight sells a small tube bender for under 10. But as long as you bend the tube around something it should be alright.

I think the flairing is a bit of a pain in the ass and takes some practice. 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 12:51

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I just use a 2 - 3" PVC pipe to bend tubes around. Flaring the ends is the biggest PITA though. I’ve done enough to be competent with the cheapo flaring kits, but still manage to mangle probably 10% of the flairs I do that then need to be redone. I’ve sworn that if I ever need to replace the brake lines on another vehicle I am going to pony up the $200-$300 for a real ly nice flaring tool. And, i f you plan on keeping the vehicle for a long time go with the nickel-copper lines.

just-a-scratch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 12:53

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Making new brake lines is the easy part. Getting a master cylinder that matches the needs of your car might be much harder. You might have already considered the piston sizes, travel, and pressures needed for the front and rear circuits. But small differences from one to the next can make a big difference.

As for making the new brake lines, there are a lot of options. You’ll need a flaring tool and probably a bender for the brake lines. There are a few different types of flares out there, bubble flare, double bubble flare, ISO bubble flare, AN flare, single flare... Double check what you have and get a tool that will do the type you need. Not all tools are created equal. Whichever you choose to use, do a few practice tries to familiarize before going in for one to install on the car.

When making the lines themselves, it’s often helpful to pattern based on the existing lines. Leave some extra length at the end where you’ll make a connection if y ou can. Y ou might need to make a second try at getting it right.

Some types of tubing are easier to work with. Stainless is the most brittle, but it really lasts well. Steel is the cheapest and not too bad to form. Nickel-copper is by far the easiest to work with, but it’s more expensive . Often the nickel copper stuff can be formed/bent by hand without kinking.

MoCamino > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 12:54

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It’s not too bad. I used this bender from HF, and it worked pretty well. They sell two sizes - make sure you get the one for the size tubing you’re using.

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-to-1-4-quarter-inch-tube-bender-94571.html

I was able to use a line that already had the ends on it, so I didn’t have to cut to length and flare the ends. If you’re cutting to length (and thus flaring the ends), you should probably look at this one. I’ve not used it this one, so I have no idea if the bender springs included are any good.

https://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-tube-flaring-kit-5969.html

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > just-a-scratch 05/21/2020 at 12:55

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This is good info, thanks!

MM54 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 13:07

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I would recommend NiCopp tubing, easy to work with and less likely to kink. A relatively cheap flaring tool is fine (make sure you get the right type for invert or bubble flares, and the matching nuts). You will forget to put the nut on before flaring at least once.

You don’t need to buy a bender but it helps. Keeping tension on the tube while gently bending it around any object works decently (especially with nicopp). I have a bender, but have used jack handles, suspension parts, exhaust pipe, my knee, my friend’s elbow, etc.

Making brake lines is very easy, especially small/short ones. Take your time and it’ll be fine.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > MM54 05/21/2020 at 13:09

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Se conded, all the above, with the note to be sure to chamfer the line correctly to do a bubble flare.

Wacko > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 13:12

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you need this bender

and this flare kit

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Wacko 05/21/2020 at 13:13

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Link?

sony1492 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 13:30

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Watch some youtube videos, it s fairly simple but do some practice runs using the flaring tool before you make the line you plan to use, buy a small tube cutter too, a cheapo one will work.

I can load up some pics later of the tools used on the lexus brake lines if it’d help

nermal > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 13:59

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It’s not that difficult with the correct tool thingy. Just don’t screw it up, then drive too close to a cliff....

Nom De Plume > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 14:13

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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-900675

GIS on flare tool brings up a lot of alibaba links.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Nom De Plume 05/21/2020 at 14:26

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I think I will buy some straight sections (10" long or so) with flairs and nuts then bend them to fit. Seems like the easiest way to do this.

Longtime Lurker > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 14:31

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For any length under 5' I would buy pre-flared lines, as the flaring is the hard part. Always use a tube bender to prevent kinking. I did the trailing arm lines on the BMW myself not to hard, only needed 1 “practice line”

https://canadiantire.scene7.com/is/image/CanadianTire/0135922_1?defaultImage=image_na_EN&imageSet=CanadianTire/0135922_1?defaultImage=image_na_EN&id=yfdrX2&fmt=jpg&fit=constrain,1&wid=323&hei=245

ClassicDatsunDebate > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 14:39

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I’d highly recommend buying the original master from a specialty Z parts house. I’m pretty sure they are available.  Save yourself a ton of headache.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:01

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It’s kind of a pain although not difficult with the tools listed by everyone else.

Most important tip:  put on the nuts BEFORE you flare!

Thisismydisplayname > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:03

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Get a nicopp kit, not steel.  Very friendly to work with and won’t rot out on you.  If you can beg borrow or steal a hydraulic flare tool, you will be in much better shape, but the rental cheapie tools will be fine with nicopp as well.  It’s nice to bend and shape, just make sure your cuts are flat/straight.  

Thisismydisplayname > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:06

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This tool is the shit.  But $300 is pricey.  If I didn’t have one and I was redoing a full car, I’d buy one, knowing what I know now.  It is that much nicer than the other rental kits.  

GoodIdeaAtTheTime > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:13

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If you can swing it, I’d recommend just getting a full pre-bent stainless kit from Z car depot, or any other number of Z sites, unless you really really really want to bend and flare lines . I nstead of spending days bending and fitting lines for my old Fiero , it was 2 hours to remove the old rusty stuff, then 1 hour to bolt the new stuff in and get it bled out. Well worth the $300, to me.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/21/2020 at 15:29

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Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > GoodIdeaAtTheTime 05/21/2020 at 15:31

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The problem is that the reservoir on my car is reversed from front to back otherwise I’d just buy a reservoir from a newer car and be done with it. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/21/2020 at 15:32

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They have master cylinders available but the front and back are reversed on my car so I have to reroute the brake lines to different connection points, hence the need for custom lines.

Roadkilled > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:47

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Forgive my ignorance if I’m asking a stupid question. Could you buy the newer master cylinder and use the rubber parts from it to rebuild your original master cylinder? I’m assuming that something isn’t going to match up. However, would it be worth looking at before bending up the new lines?

ClassicDatsunDebate > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 15:50

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Huh, learned something new. I guess swapping the lines would be the easiest and cheapest solution.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/21/2020 at 15:54

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Yes, that is the conclusion I’m coming to. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Longtime Lurker 05/21/2020 at 15:55

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I like this idea and am thinking this is the direction I’ll go.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Roadkilled 05/21/2020 at 15:57

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The pistons are of a very different design and the reservoirs are reversed. I did look at that previously. While the master cylinders are interchangeable the internals vary by year of manufacture .

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Thisismydisplayname 05/21/2020 at 15:57

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You know me too well. Buy a $300 kit for a $20 job.

ClassicDatsunDebate > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 16:01

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too bad someone doesn’t have pre-bent kits.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/21/2020 at 16:02

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They make the lines for OEM location connections. I’ve already used some. They still need some bending.

Urambo Tauro > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 16:48

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Another vote for nickel copper tubing here! If this is your first time doing hard lines, maybe practice on some of your old steel lines first. That’ll give you a feel for how much easier NiCopp is to work with !

I do most of my bends with simple bending pliers like this. Y ou just have to pay attention to which side of the pliers you’re bending the tubing around.

As you make your new lines, try to duplicate the original routing as much as possible. Do NOT  let it chafe anywhere, and don’t let long sections go unsupported. Reuse old clips , or install new p-clips, or at the very least , wrap a small piece of rubber hose around the tubing to act as a bushing and zip-tie it to something to hold it in place.

Wacko > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 17:03

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Any car parts store or online.

Brake line bender and brake flang kit

onlytwowheels > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 21:33

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Datsun-240Z-tandem-brake-master-cylinder-rebuild-kit-B-plus-OEM-NOS/303190576526?hash=item4697910d8e:g:b4oAAOSwzaJX6~kv

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > onlytwowheels 05/21/2020 at 21:46

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Holy shit balls. So expensive, but exactly what I need.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Datsun-Roadster-Tokico-tandem-brake-master-cylinder-rebuild-kit-A-plus/303190603030?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D226523%26meid%3Db978dc01006e4c858d86ed3fc85bea67%26pid%3D100930%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D303190576526%26itm%3D303190603030%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100930.m5375

Thisismydisplayname > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 21:51

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If you need it once, you’ll probably need it twice.  :)

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 21:51

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Done it on a few vehicles. Not to hard. you quickly get a rhythm going. As MM54 you will forget at least one nut before flaring.

Your localpart store may have a flaring tool and bend tool to borrow.

One extra note, when removing the old lines, dont cut them up , as they provide a great templa te to follow.

onlytwowheels > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/21/2020 at 21:56

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Get it while you still can, or as they say on American Pick ers, “the time to buy it is when you see it.”

ClassicDatsunDebate > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/26/2020 at 01:41

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Hey Highlander...here’s what z guy ofWashington had to say...

“ I don’t know of anyone selling a rebuild kit for the early masters. I haven’t been able to buy them for over 10 years. I use to be able to send the master in for rebuilding which takes 4-5 weeks but I’d have to check with my supplier and see if that option is still available. Let me know if you want me to do that. The company that I use to use wouldn’t sell the kits outright unfortunately. If the z is not going to be a concourse car (all original), I recommend going to the newer style master cylinder which is an improvement but it does require some mods. I can get them brand new for 114.95 each and can assist you with the mods. I would have to build you a couple of lines that hook to the master, and I’d have to build you a new plunger tip for the booster. Let me know what you decide.”

Perhaps get a hold of him from the link in the 311s vendor page if that works for you.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ClassicDatsunDebate 05/26/2020 at 09:28

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Hey thanks for asking. I think I’m going to just buy a new master. I didn’t know the plunger tip was different too. Dang I’ll have to figure that out too.